As tensions spiral across the Middle East following a dramatic escalation between Iran, Israel, and the United States, The Sunday Guardian spoke to Israel’s Ambassador to India, Reuven Azar, on the evolving regional crisis.
In a wide-ranging conversation with Editor Joyeeta Basu, Ambassador Azar described the recent US airstrikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities as “historic”, explained why Israel saw the action as necessary at this moment, and outlined the strategic goals behind the ongoing military campaign.
From the targeting of Iran’s missile launchers and clandestine nuclear teams to Israel’s expectations from Tehran and the broader implications for regional stability, the ambassador offered a candid assessment of the conflict’s direction. He also commented on India’s position and the continuing strength of Indo-Israeli ties in the face of global uncertainty.
Watch the video here:
Edited excerpts from the exclusive interview:
Joyeeta Basu: A lot is happening on the Israel-Iran front. A war is raging in the Middle East, and on Sunday after midnight, the USA bombed several nuclear installations in Iran. Ambassador Reuven Azar, how would you describe the attack? There is a lot of criticism coming in, in terms of violation of the sovereignty of Iran. But also, perhaps from the Israeli viewpoint, it could be called historic, a game-changer. How would you describe it?
Ambassador Azar: We describe it as historic because of several reasons. First, not only have we finally gotten to the plans of Iran to exterminate us and taken care of it with the help of the United States — and we are in complete sync with the United States — but also this is a very important sign for the international community.
Because when you have a country like Iran that has been for decades not only trying to destroy the state of Israel and sworn to destroy the state of Israel, but deceiving the entire international community with clandestine and undeclared nuclear activities, amassing huge amounts of weapons of mass destruction, with attacks against neighboring countries, against Arab capitals, building this terrorist machine, building a huge amount of military capability through illicit means — when America sends such a sign after years of trying to negotiate this, it means that other malign actors will think again before they engage in such actions.
Because what America has managed to do, together with Israel, is to basically erase dozens, if not hundreds, of billions of dollars of investment that Iran had in this effort. And we have no doubt that this is setting back the Iranian nuclear program and the Iranian ballistic program big time.
Joyeeta Basu: Why was this attack needed at this particular point of time?
Ambassador Azar: Well, we had information that since we succeeded in defeating Hezbollah, and since the defeat of Hezbollah has caused a change in Syria, the Iranian regime changed policy and decided to run into building a nuclear device. And that is something that we couldn’t live with because we knew that from the moment the Iranians build the device, they would create a nuclear deterrence that would allow them not only to exterminate Israel but also keep other countries at bay. And therefore, we took action, and we took it now.
Joyeeta Basu: Okay. Now, how does this attack help your war against Iran, specifically in terms of degrading Iran’s nuclear capabilities? Because there are media reports that say that Fordow was damaged but has not been destroyed. So what are the possibilities that Iran will not try to revive its nuclear weapons program again?
Ambassador Azar: Well, we’ll see if it chooses to do so. What we have been doing is a huge degradation of their military nuclear program. And it’s not just Fordow.
What Israel started to do 10 days ago is a systematic elimination of the nuclear program that has many elements. Some of the elements are enrichment of uranium, some of the elements have to do with putting installations on the ground. But there are many other elements — for example, the conversion plant in Isfahan that is essential in order to create a nuclear weapon, the targeting of the clandestine group that was building a nuclear device.
Although enrichment technology is not that complicated, and you have hundreds, if not thousands, of people in Iran that master that, when it comes to the weaponization, there were only very few people that were dealing with that. And I believe that thanks to the Israeli activity — both of the IDF and the other security agencies — we have been able to neutralise that.
There were more than 70 locations around Iran in which nuclear activities were being carried. So the systematic activity of Israel — of, first of all, removing the air defences, then pounding the military leadership and the Revolutionary Guards and the criminal group of scientists that were assembling the weapon and the installations — that has brought a setback to the nuclear program of Iran by many years.
And of course, the ending move by the United States, to make sure, through these MOAB bombs of 13 tonnes each, fired from B-2 airplanes, has made sure that these installations are indeed completely destroyed or damaged to the extent that they will be impossible to restore in a short time.
Joyeeta Basu: There are media reports that are saying Iran has been able to save much of its enriched uranium stockpile. Now, even if they’re not able to revive the nuclear program any time soon, they can always use this enriched uranium to produce and use what are known as dirty bombs or radiological dispersal devices (RDDs). How can Iran be stopped from misusing the enriched uranium it has at its disposal?
Ambassador Azar: Well, that’s indeed a challenge. The challenge is not over.
As you know, we have invested many years in intelligence that would allow us to expose what Iran was doing in the past. We’ve managed to share some of that intelligence with the IAEA, and without Israeli intelligence, I doubt very much whether the IAEA would have been capable of issuing reports — including the last report — in which it determined that Iran is in non-compliance with the safeguards agreement.
So yes, we will have a challenge with that. Possibly some of the enriched material is out there. But as we have exposed the various nuclear activities of Iran in the past, I believe in our capability to expose whatever they’re planning to do in the future.
Joyeeta Basu: How do you expect Iran to respond now? Militarily, or by ramping up the use of terrorism through its proxies? They are already talking about blocking the Strait of Hormuz. How far do you think Iran is willing to go?
Ambassador Azar: That’s a good question. We hope they will change course, because after many years of acting with complete impunity — since April last year, when for the first time they attacked us directly — they have become exposed.
For 30 years, the Iranians were sitting back, creating this machinery of terror, war, and aggression against the rest of the region, including Israel, and they were not being held accountable. For the first time, they are now accountable.
The so-called Supreme Leader (Ayatollah Ali Khamenei), who commanded all these people to do all these terrible things, is now seeing his entire country, mainly its military capabilities, in flames. And Israel now has freedom of action over the skies of Iran.
If the Iranians want to change that, they have to change course. They have to come clean. They have to negotiate a solution that will, first of all, verifiably see Iran clean from any military nuclear activities. Second, without the capability to build ballistic missiles, because those would be used to destroy other countries. And third, committing to stop this proxy war and this ring of fire around us.
If they commit to that, then I think Iran can be a peaceful country. I agree with you that the radical ideology doesn’t give you a lot of room to be optimistic. And therefore, we have no choice but to use force.
But eventually, they will have to pick what to do first — rebuild their proxies, rebuild the nuclear program, rebuild the ballistic missile program, and rebuild their machinery of oppression of the Iranian people. That’s going to take them a lot of time and a lot of money — money the international community is willing to keep from them if they don’t change course.
Joyeeta Basu: Now, since you spoke about ballistic missiles — which seem to be posing an immediate threat to the people of Israel — today also I saw some media reports about, I think, some defense installations being hit. Certain reports are coming in now. To what extent, if you can be a little more specific, have Iran’s ballistic missile capabilities been degraded? Especially since we keep hearing about a stockpile of something like 3,000 ballistic missiles. And also, has the intensity of attacks that we saw in the initial days come down?
Ambassador Azar: Right. So first, in terms of capabilities — yes, the intelligence figures that were published are talking about several thousand, between 2,000 and 3,000 ballistic missiles already possessed.
However, they were planning to build 20,000 ballistic missiles in the next three years. They were capable of producing 300 ballistic missiles per month.
So what we did is we pounded not only the missile stockpiles but also the launchers — because the launchers are key in order to send a barrage of missiles towards Israel. We have been able to destroy more than 50% of the launchers, and we are continuing to do so. Our Air Force is still over Iran.
In addition to that, we put a lot of focus on the factories that produce missiles. That has created a situation where the barrages have gone down from about 200 per day in the first four days of the operation to only about two dozen in the last few days per day.
It’s still a challenge. Each one of these missiles can erase an entire building or hit an entire neighbourhood. And we have seen some of these missiles penetrating our very good air defence systems.
We have 24 casualties, hundreds of wounded. Only a few days back, a neighbourhood in which my son lives was hit as well. It’s a challenge, and Israel continues to degrade. I believe we have the capability to continue to degrade the missile capability of Iran.
Joyeeta Basu: As for Israel’s goals in this war, would you say they have changed during the war? Specifically, are you looking at a regime change in Iran? Even President Trump has talked about it.
Ambassador Azar: We have two main goals in this campaign: to neutralise the nuclear threat of extermination of our state by a country that has sworn to destroy us, and to destroy the ballistic missile program, which is also a plan to try to exterminate us.
We are seeking a situation in which the conditions will be ripe for a diplomatic solution. And we hope that the Iranians will come to the table. And this time, they will take the United States and the rest of the international community much more seriously.
Only two or three days ago, the foreign minister of Iran was in Europe, and he was refusing to cooperate on any of the demands of the international community.
So we hope that changes. And I think as much as the capabilities of Iran get degraded, there is a tendency that they will agree. And if not, we will continue keeping our freedom of operation to neutralize any threat that is coming from Iran towards our state.
Joyeeta Basu: Any chances of putting Israeli boots on the ground in the near future?
Ambassador Azar: I’m not aware of our operational plans. The government of Israel will know what to do in order to neutralise threats.
But our goals, our plans do not include regime change. This is something that is completely up to the Iranian people.
Of course, we hope that this regime will leave this world because it’s a regime that has not only been attacking Israel so fiercely and planning to destroy us, but it’s also a threat to the region.
We saw the attacks against the Saudis about five years ago. We saw the attacks against ships by the Houthis that are a proxy of Iran that hinder international trade.
And no less, the terrible oppression of Iran towards the people of Iran, which is unimaginable. I understand why it’s so hard for the Iranian people to rise against this regime. Because it has been terrorising them, torturing them, putting them in prison, just killing women because they don’t wear hijab.
It’s terrible. And I hope, for the sake of humanity, that this regime will no longer exist.
But we do not see it as our role to decide which government is going to rule other states. We are concentrated on electing our own government.
Joyeeta Basu: So when you say that this will continue, do you have a rough time period in mind? How long is it likely to continue? And is there a ceasefire? Because there is some talk of a ceasefire coming up.
Ambassador Azar: We are not looking for a prolonged war. We hope to reach a ceasefire that will meet the goals that we have put forward.
Joyeeta Basu: And how are Israelis coping with this war? What’s the mood like in Israel?
Ambassador Azar: People are very anxious, because they have to run into shelters on a day-to-day basis. Right now, in the last 10 days, we don’t have schools in Israel. Only a few people have been able to go to work.
Generally speaking, people are fearing being hit. They have to run to shelters.
However, the mood of Israelis is actually pretty good. The results of the actions of the IDF have not only brought up the national atmosphere, the national mood, but also it manifested itself in the stock exchange in Israel, which has gone up.
The results of our operation are very successful in terms of reaching their goals. And therefore, the general mood is a good mood.
We also believe that as a result of the substantial debilitation of the Iranian regime and its capability to hurt us, there is much more prospect that we will also be able to finish our campaign in the Gaza Strip, to get rid of Hamas, and finally bring back our hostages.
Joyeeta Basu: You are Israel’s ambassador to India. What is your view of India’s stand on this war? Are you happy with whatever India has been saying or doing?
Ambassador Azar: Well, India is not part of this conflict. And we are not part of conflicts that India has.
But what we have in common is, first of all, our values. We enjoy an amazing relationship. Only in the last few days, our Prime Minister spoke with Prime Minister Modi. Our Foreign Minister spoke with Mr. S Jaishankar (India’s external affairs minister). Our National Security Advisers — Tzachi Hanegbi and Ajit Doval — spoke to each other.
We are working together, including in the last 20 months since this war started on 7th of October, to continue cooperating and widening our cooperation in fields that serve our national security goals.
We create together the capabilities that allow us to meet some of the challenges that we have. This is a very good relationship. It not only includes defense aspects but also economic aspects. And we have a very full agenda of things we want to achieve in this relationship.
India is a rising power. Israel is also a very prominent player in our region and in the world when it comes to innovation. And we have a lot of things that we can achieve together.
We are looking forward to the day in which this challenge of Iran will be over, and we’ll be able to engage fully in developing our relationship with India and with other friends around the world.